Norman Ramsey Oral History
Norman
Ramsey is a physicist best known for his development
of the separated oscillatory field method of
measurement and for his work in magnetic
resonance. He received his bachelor's degree in pre
engineering at Columbia University. Ramsey
attended Cambridge University on fellowship,
ultimately receiving his Ph.D. in physics at
Columbia with I.I. Robby, and wrote his
dissertation on magnetic resonance and
measurement methods. After a post-doctoral
appointment at the Carnegie Institution in
Washington, Ramsey worked briefly at the University
of Illinois in 1940. During World War II he
worked on radar and magnetron development at
MIT's Radiation Lab; later, he became an expert
advisor to the Secretary of War, working first
at the Pentagon and then at Los Alamos, where
he worked on bomb shape testing at Dahlgren proving
ground. After the war, Ramsey returned to
Columbia, where he and Rabi established the
Brookhaven National Laboratory with Robby. Ramsey
was head of the physics department at
Brookhaven and professor at Columbia until he moved
to Harvard in 1947, where he continues to work as a
professor. The interview begins with the
circumstances of Ramsey's education at Columbia
and Cambridge and then provides some detail about
Ramsey's doctoral work with Robby on magnetic
resonance and measurement. Ramsey discusses his
work at the Rad Lab, the Pentagon, and Los Alamos
during World War II, and then describes the
establishment of Brookhaven National Laboratory
and his work at Harvard, including his participation
in the development of the separated
oscillatory field method and its various
applications, discussing the relationship
between technology and its applications and
the roles physicists and engineers play in the
development of applications. Throughout the
interview, Ramsey compares and contrasts
physicists' and engineers' work habits, motivations,
and general philosophies, noting that at many
times in his career he as a physicist
functioned as an engineer, usually when he had to
make his own apparatus for a particular
experiment. He suggests that there are, overall, too
many similarities between physics and engineering
for there to be a real acid test to determine
who fell into which category. After treating
several of his research projects from the 1960s and
1970s, the interview concludes with a
discussion of Ramsey's use of IEEE journals for
background information related to engineering.
See also Interview #105, Norman Ramsey (June
20, 1991)
Table of Contents
- Early interest in physics and
engineering
- Education Pre engineering at Columbia
- Columbia Cambridge
University Nuclear physics at Cambridge
Theoretical physics background
- Nuclear magnetic moments I.I.
Rabi Molecular beams predecessors of NMR, MRI
- Ph.D. thesis on magnetic resonance
Magnetic resonance and measurement methods
Thesis: measuring magnetic moment of proton and
deuteron
- Experiments with HD brings sharp
resonance Thesis work
- H2, D2 measurements Deuterons
- Engineering aspects of physics; had to
make apparatus
Engineers become
physicists; physicists become engineers
Post-doc at Carnegie Institution
- Short career at University of Illinois
in 1940 World War II American research
on Rada
- Battle of Britain; RAF and radar Radio
location
Need for shorter
wavelengths
Ten-centimeter
radar
High-power magnetron:
Randall, Oliphant, Boot
- Magnetron and National Defense Research
Council
Alfred Loomis, microwave
committee Radar
- Radiation Lab at MIT E.G. Bowen
- Naming the Rad Lab Rabi and magnetron
at Rad Lab
- Advanced development group
Three-centimeter magnetrons Microwave
hardware
- Waveguide design Columbia; nuclear
magnetic resonance Prewar engineering
curriculum
- Physicists were primary leaders in the
Rad Lab Development of radar Development
of systems, towards applications Night fighter
aircraft interceptor at 3 cm Air to
surface radar, 3 cm--submarine detection
- Air to surface radar H2X system
Engineering work Navy laboratory
management, getting radar in Becomes expert
consultant to secretary of War (Navy)
- Assigned to requirements branch
Five-year procurement plan for radar for Army
Air Corps
- Five-year procurement plant for radar
for Army Air Corps
Rad Labs add new
radars
Left Pentagon; to Los Alamos
- Los Alamos lab Tests at Dahlgren
proving ground about bomb shapes
- Los Alamos Bomb engineering
- Bomb engineering at Los Alamos
- Kit bomb assembly
- Return to Columbia to start
experiments
Helped establish
Brookhaven National Laboratory with Rabi
Head of physics department at Brookhaven
Professor at Columbia Lured to Harvard; at
Harvard since 1947
Making a
molecular beam resonance apparatus
Wanting to make magnetic fields better
- Construction of the Harvard
cyclotron
Separated oscillatory
field method
- Separated oscillatory field method
- Physics motivation; engineering
concerns
- Applications to higher frequency
standards and atomic clocks
Specialized knowledge of electrical engineering;
Rad Lab
First Rad Lab device
manufactured at Harvard
Measuring
power on first British ten centimeter magnetrons
- Condon and Shortley, "Theory of the
Atomic Spectra"
Condon wrote guide
to microwaves for them
Wave guide
knowledge at MIT Rad Lab
- Adaptability of physicists at Rad
Lab
Colloquium on impedance
War meant incentive to aim for applications
Fundamental research not discouraged during war
- Physicist will be more interested in
theory than engineer
Motivation
differences between physicist and engineer
- Individual creativity
Rationality/irrationality of the creative
process
Separated oscillatory field
research
Stimulation and creativity
- Optics lecture as inspiration
- Need for time spent just thinking
Problem of too much prior knowledge, can block
thinking
Technological developments
come from science
Believes
scientists are happy to see applications
- Publishing on atomic clock
application
Appreciates having
others take ideas over Hydrogen maser
- Publications Scientific innovations;
engineering tradition
- Testing U.S. and British ten-centimeter
radar TR box
British ahead of U.S.
on crystals
- Development of crystal John Bardeen,
theoretical physicists William Shockley
- Similarities between physics and
engineering Apparatus: practical needs
vs. understanding of theory
- Guesswork in physics SSC and spin-off
technology
Atomic clocks, counting
devices in history of computing
Particle physics and data transmission
- WWW at CERN Particle physics and
engineering developments
Harvard
cyclotron now used more for medicine
Magnetic resonance
Wrote first
theoretical paper on chemical shift
Nuclear shielding in molecules
- Magnetic shielding paper; nice general
theory but hard to fulfill
- From magnetic shielding to chemical
shifts
President of University's
Research Association for 16 years
Constructed and operated Fermi Lab
Cyclotron construction
- Cyclotron: engineering problem for
scientific purposes
Ramsey as
manager; not a very good designer
Robert Wilson physicist, sculptor, good at
designing
Good teamwork
- Making equipment, esp. computers
Doesn't often make effort to patent equipment he
makes
No patent on separated
oscillatory field
- Did patent hydrogen maser
Problem of time limits on patents
- Physical intuition on physical systems,
engineering problems
Must also
think of new ideas
Research in
1960s and 1970s
Molecular beams
devices to measure interactions in
molecules
Discovery of new
interactions
- Parity testing
Time
reversal symmetry
Looking for a
long range tension force between two particles
- Separated oscillatory field
development; improvements
Data
reduction, theoretical analysis of
improvements
Neutron electric diode
pole moment in Grenoble, France
Automated to run by computers
Engineering literature, IEEE journals
- Reading habits IEEE Spectrum for
engineering material: background, ideas
